It simply isn't a black and white matter

From the view of a one-eyed Port Adelaide fan, what does this AFL reserves debate make me think will happen to my club. The Port Adelaide Football Club.

There are many potential outcomes for the SA based AFL sides having reserves, but, lets be honest here, some of them simply wont happen.

They will not be in the VFL. There will not be an AFL reserves comp. I would think most of us agree on that.

The AFC and PAFC, I would imagine, wouldn’t want their reserves sides stacked with fringe AFL talent and developing rookies playing SANFL reserves, the standard may just not be high enough.

So, it is most likely that the AFL sides will have reserves in the SANFL league competition.

( Despite what you think and what will eventuate, lets run with that outcome for the purpose of this thread )

So what does this mean for my beloved Magpies and Power?

Well, if this is what eventuates and the Magpies are forever consigned to simply feeding the Power with fit, in form players my world will have changed and not for the better.

As with the recent publicity of our black and white heritage jumper to be worn in our final game at Footy Park, the success that that guernsey has seen at that ground ( 13 Premierships ) and all other SANFL grounds has given me and 3 generations before me (and another in my children) much joy over many, many years.

Regardless of your views, the “fact” is Port Adelaide’s success in the black and white paved the way for our club to join the AFL. ( bayman, lets not get into the hysterics of how and why ).

Now how would I feel if the Magpies were simply a reserves team playing for nothing other than AFL development? I’d be gutted, there is simply no doubt about it. I love standing on the concrete in front of the Williams Family Stand enjoying some banter between opposing team supporters, walking out to listen to the likes of John Cahill and Stephen Williams over the years, what more is there about the Magpies than Cahill and Williams names?

That would all be gone. Would any Norwood supporters come along to Alberton to watch the ‘Legs play the Power two’s? Unlikely.
Even more so, would anyone give a rats toss bag about the outcome? Even surer, no.

Having said this, as an avid Power Foundation Member, supporter and small time sponsor I truly want to once again experience the thrill of that day in 2004 at the MCG with 80,000 people in the ground watching the club I love win the ultimate in Australian domestic team sports.( I see the AFL as that anyway)

Am I willing to sacrifice any potential future Magpie premierships and no longer have the chance to see the Alberton natives once more be the best in this state for success on the AFL stage? Well, no, I’m certainly not. But I must be, like many other Magpie and Power fans, torn.

Keith Thomas has done a simply flawless job since taking over the helm at Alberton and has clearly built a team of impressive operators around him. From Kochy to Hinkley and the coaching team it is clear that they ( and Sanderson and the AFC ) feel that the best way to nurture young talent and give that talent the best opportunity to succeed is by playing them in a side all together with coaching, structures, playing philosophy and fitness work all performed the same as the AFL big brother does.

With what the PAFC has done this season in moving ( another story and one I don’t 100% agree with ) AFL listed players to the Magpies with an assurity of a league game is, in my view, already beginning to undermine the Magpies importance to the SANFL. Clearly the moves are to minimize the impact of the introduction of the AFL reserves to the SANFL and not at this point give the Magpies any significant on field advantage. I certainly don’t see it as “stacking” the Magpies for success. Quite the opposite, I see it purely as risk minimization.

Ken McGregor who, I believe, is only on a one year deal would have had some inclination that his side would, in 2014, be PAFC AFL aligned. (Perhaps other potential coaching candidates were scared off by this in the interview process?) I feel for Kenny as he has had this laid before him without any real power to decide what his preferred option would be. In some ways I see this as driving a wedge once again between the Power and Magpies. I don’t like that.

Simply offering players a league spot at the Magpies because the club they had been at would not ( Newton / West, Young / North ) doesn’t sit well with me, but I also have faith that those who are now making the decisions at Alberton are making the right ones.Clearly they believe the above, one club with two teams for AFL based players. Right or wrong, that’s what they want. Hard to argue with Geelong, Collingwood and Sydneys current development systems.

So I cant for the life of me make up my mind as to what I want to happen.

I know I want the Magpies to survive, thrive and succeed once more.
I know I want the Power to grow and develop the best player list we can to see us once again be the team to beat.

So, what does 2014 hold? I think the two SA AFL clubs will have their reserves play in the SANFL reserves. I think the 8 other SANFL clubs will be offered incentive enough to allow Adelaide and Port Adelaide to align their reserves with an SANFL club ( Port / Magpies – Adelaide I’m not sure they will align with Sturt ) and play in that competition.

After all that rant, I bet you are confused.

How do you think I feel!!!!

I feel for people like you Booney who didnt just abandon the Magpies when the Power came in.
Surely an AFL reserves comp is what is required. But if the Magpies are that team, than the SANFL for you and for everyone else who loves the comp will be changed even more dramatically than it previously has been.

I'll be honest here, I dont think there are all that many people who followed the Power 100% leaving the Magpies behind altogether. At least not to the point of not caring about their existence. ( Another debate, but certainly not as many as former SANFL fans with the Crows )

There is also a strong group of Magpie fans who want nothing to do with the Power.

Mate,

I do not think it is anywhere near a done deal for the Power & Crows reserves too play at top level SANFL -- if it happens then much AFL $$$$ will have to be long term committed. This attitude within the SANFL clubs (who DO have the final say) is due to watching the WAFL & VFL existing competitions.

I have many Port Magpie friends over many years of being part of an opposition club staff and deeply feel for them. I feel that the loss of the true Port Magpies (will happen) is just the start sadly for these friends anguish.

The model was flawed from the start being based on very optimistic supporter base predictions and has just not financial developed over the years. Many supporter (BUT NOT YOU MATE) have tried to blame many other things including but not limited to the SANFL but the real factor is the original flaws and the limited fan base.

For the Power to continue with their own licence (without the backing of the SANFL) then they will have to generate enough $$$ to function -- key to this is the supporter base (members) and bluntly bums on seats at all games ---- the club to its credit has made many internal changes and your new President & Directors are seeking actively a wide Australia wide supporter base which I do hope they achieve.

However, putting it bluntly to achieve this wider supporter base the previous history will be downplayed specifically the SANFL history. Sadly, in 10 years I believe that the Power will be basing its presence on AFL history with the SANFL forgotten --- similar to Woodville & West Torrens is bypassed for the amalgamated Eagle history where not forgotten is just not highlighted.

It is a hard one Booney, and I do feel sorry for the Port faithful. There is no chance of an AFL reserves comp as that has already been killed off. Similarly I cannot see them being in the VFL as no AFl club will want to pay to fly over their "reserves"/VFL affiliate to play the Power/Crows reserves.

So we are left with the status quo or a team playing in the SANFL league or reserves.

The danger of having all the Power listed players playing for Port is that, if allowed to keep all their recruiting zones and structure, they will be too pwerful. The WAFL and WC Eagles did this in the 1990's with West Perth?? and they dominated the competition for years until the system was disbanded.

Could Port play in the SANFL league with all the Power listed players but with a weakened team e.g. lose some or all their country zones and have restrictions on signing other SANFL players. (for example- they cannot recruit any player who has played with another SANFL club within the last 2 years). The danger may be that you end up with a team comprised of AFL listed players and amateur grade footballers. I am not sure that this will help their development and they would have trouble fielding a competitive reserves team.

The best option may be to have teams in the reserve competition, but if so, that will be the end of the Port Magpies. Sadly, when the people in charge care only about the AFL then the SANFl will get screwed over.

I think the AFL reserves playing SANFL reserves would aid the Magpie cause. The Magpies could continue to play league football with no AFL listed players in the side, as all other SANFL clubs would be. Do you agree?

Thanks for that, Booney, a good insight into a passionate Magpie's fan's feelings.

I'm sure Port would ask to run 3 teams, but I don't think it's viable.

I'm also sure they don't want to be seen to be the cause of the Maggies' demise, but might achieve that by putting up it up as a solution which the other clubs would find unacceptable?

Whatever happens, good luck and make Westies your fall-back club

Very very interesting Booney.

Put that way, it is much easier to see your agony when all the angles are presented. Sometimes we can focus on only on aspect of this debate, to all our detriments.

I think it would have been much simpler if in 1991 the Magpies had folded as the PAFC intended. It seems that this whole thing has taken 20 years to manifest out and not in the organised planned way that it could have been, certainly if Port had gotten its way back then.

However, if they were fair dinkum operators, I wonder just how hard it would be for the AFL to establish an AFL reserves. They probably have half of it covered already with the NEAFL. You have teams from Darwin, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Canberra, Sydney.

It doesn't seem that far-fetched to include the Crows, Power and even some VFL teams. They already have a conference system, much like US sport. Harping back to my Style over Substance thread, if the AFL truly looked after these tiers of footy, this would have been a done deal years ago and the local / country leagues factored into the footbal hierachy as well.

Getting back to home base, I would be definitely torn like you Booney. And that too may become a reality if Sturt become aligned to the Crows as has been sugguested. It makes me wonder, a bloke like John Halbert in the various roles he has had in education and football for many years wouldn't just talk off the cuff I think. For him to air these thoughts about Sturt offering to be the Crows #2 at our AGM, I think he has been discussing it with infuential people (not necessarily within the SFC) but it wouldn't surprise me if a reasonably advanced model was forthcoming from such a camp very soon.

What I can say to you Booney, if this comes to pass, I would probably cease to be a Sturt member and even supporter. For it wouldn't be the Sturt I know and have followed for 40 years. It is not the deal I sign up for each year. I think I would prefer the SANFL to become something akin to the SAAFL in preference to bastardising itself to accommodate Demetriou's (and his followers) vision of football.

Not sure whether you would feel the same Booney in Port's case, but I sympathise that you have stated the fact that it all doesn't sit right with you.

I think true football followers from SA understand that you can't just cast off all that tradition for an easy solution to accommodate 2 teams.

Thanks Chambo.

I know if the Magpies fold I will be gutted, but I also know I will still follow, support and financially commit to the Power.

G'day Booney,

You know I am an avid to the core Norwood supporter so if in your position I would feel exactly the same and as you already know it is almost an impossible position to see your tradition disappear

Thanks for expressing your open opinion, like Chambo I agree that this should have taken place in 1991, (can you believe it) 22 years later the world of the SANFL would have been a different place.

1.
At that time all of the Port Adelaide supporters would have gladly stuck it up the SANFL and gone with the Power, no problem with supporter base then or now.

2.
The Port Adelaide FC would have held all that past history instead of it being a dividing issue, its now back as One Club but the damage has been done, by the splitting of loyalties and the loss of the true diehards who would have turned up every week at Power games and made the difference both crowd wise and financially during these down years.

3.
The good to come out of the rubble is that the Power is now looking Nationally for membership, coaches and management. Not the old inward system of having had played for the Magpies before getting jobs within

4.
As for the SANFL after the Port Magpies as they are now known, it will live on. Remember the old adage "What happens when you take your hand out of a bucket of water?" the hole fills in and over and it goes back to normal very quickly, so will the SANFL, perhaps going back to 8 teams competition which provides for games every weekend instead of disruptive byes etc, etc.

Whatever the outcome, I hope you don't disappear from the forum it is good to have opposition even in forums, someone else's one eyed vision may just be better than mine, not likely mind, simply possible.

Probably what I didn't say or imply very well, is that yes it would have been simpler for the PAFC to abandon the Magpies in 1991, but I too would still have been sad for them to leave the sanfl. Being a tradionalist, I would prefer the Magpies (in their original form) around. Being a realist too, I think this was always going to be hard. Easy with the benefit of hindsight of course.

In this one there will not be an solution to accommodate everyone. Perhaps you can't have your cake and eat it too.

It seems the present 2 (independent) team Port Adelaide, is neither sustainable nor preferred by the AFL. And it seems the money end of town will talk for Crows / Power reserves to happen somewhere soon.

This may be minor consolation Booney. But at least you will get at least one team with integrity that is not compromised; ie the Power. You may even get a second one in the SANFL and if so, I would imagine there would be no reason to change from it being called the Magpies and playing in black and white.

If Sturt go the way Halbert has suggested, well there is a team I guess in the sanfl, but not one that I could follow if it just fell under Crows control. Perhaps there are a few permutations of this too, but I'm sure none will be the independent version we currently have.

However, not really having an AFL club, my interest in football could diminish in a very big way.

In this AFL reserves debate, my vote would go to finding a way for the Crows and Power to have sides in and expanded NEAFL. That would essentially be an AFL reserves incubator competition. However, this probably won't solve Booney's dilemma.

Like I said, this issue will not have a solution for everyone.