General Salary Cap discussion

Don't be surprised if there are major changes to salary cap penalties.

There will be an article in tomorrow's paper and we think the future penalties could include loss of points.

That's only guesswork, but it's only a matter of time, as the current system is too tempting to break.

Melbourne Storm would be happy to play under the present system we have, wouldn't they ?

Admin wrote:Don't be surprised if there are major changes to salary cap penalties.

I'd say it's inevitable, not only in the way they are penalised, but in the way they are structured in order to make things more clear to everyone involved.

As to the current system beinbg too tempting to break, it seems to me the only clubs getting done under the current system are those attempting to do the right thing but stuffing up. Those with more creative accountancy systems have been okay.

Adelaide Hawk wrote:

As to the current system beinbg too tempting to break, it seems to me the only clubs getting done under the current system are those attempting to do the right thing but stuffing up.

Are you saying that's what Norwood have done?

Flag No.9 wrote:

Adelaide Hawk wrote:

As to the current system beinbg too tempting to break, it seems to me the only clubs getting done under the current system are those attempting to do the right thing but stuffing up.

Are you saying that's what Norwood have done?

Can't speak for this time as I have been totally unsuccessful in finding out what the hell is going on. The previous time was an error that was brought to the attention of the SANFL by Keith Thomas. We tried to do the right thing but still got belted.

From Adelaide Now


NORWOOD'S 2012 premiership is safe despite radical changes to SANFL salary cap rules threatening to strip clubs of a premiership and dock points for the following season if found guilty of cheating.

As the Redlegs sweat on the SA Football Commission to rule on their alleged breach of salary cap regulations last year, their name on the Thomas Seymour Hill trophy is not at risk, with rule changes taking effect from 2013.

The SA Football Commission on Tuesday agreed to change the maximum penalty for a non-disclosed salary cap breach to a minimum $50,000 fine, bans on recruiting and the docking of up to 12 premiership points for the subsequent season.

The amended rules also state that for the first time, a premier could be stripped of its title.

"If the breach occurred in a season during which the league club won a premiership in a competition conducted by the League, then the Football Commission may remove the premiership from the League club," the rules state.

Previously the maximum penalty for a non-voluntary disclosed breach was a $100,000 fine and recruiting bans only.

Penalties for a voluntary disclosed breach of less than $10,000 remain at a fine equivalent to the breach, but also now warrant an extra $5000 fine as well as the deduction of up to four premiership points at the Commission's discretion.

Norwood, which will tonight begin its premiership defence in front of an estimated 7000 people at The Parade, was this month charged with breaching salary cap rules in 2012 but not the cap itself.

They have since fronted the commission and are waiting to hear whether they are found guilty and whether they will be hit with a penalty.

SANFL general manager Chris Davies said changes to regulation 18.29.2 would send a strong message to clubs that it was serious about punishing clubs which flout the rules.

West Adelaide and Port Adelaide both breached the salary cap from the 2011 season, while Norwood last breached the cap in 2008. But despite its latest charge, Davies said there was no trigger for changing the penalties.

"The changes had been discussed throughout last season so there is no catalyst for why they've been approved now," Davies said.

"It is important clubs understand that there is a financial penalty but it can hurt you on-field as well."

The SANFL plans to hold a forum for all club football managers to tell them about the changes and ensure understanding of the rules.

Told last night that the penalty will not be know until at least next week so they dont take any attention away from the opening to the season.

The increase in financial penalties is significant too. In most cases the maximum fine amount per offence will double.

I don't think fining clubs large amounts is the way to go.

Most clubs are struggling financially and that just places a bigger burden on them and the comp.

Recruiting penalties, points deductions and other similar sanctions are better, IMO.

I tend to disagree with you there R&B.

If a club knowingly goes over the cap limit because they feel they can afford it, then they should be slapped with a fine IMO.

If it affects their financial position, then they themselves are to blame, no one else.

Fair enough, HTWWW, I just think many clubs genuinely go over through admin or similar errors.

I agree with you that there's a case for deliberate breaches to be handled differently.

When it's all settled, wouldn't it be nice if salary cap problems were a thing of the past.

Too much to hope for, I suppose.

I have been saying for years that we need a points system.

The richer clubs can buy as many first choice players as they want and can afford but they can only play 2-3 of them in any game and that is the start of euality

I wouldn't be surprised if the SANFL clubs got together over this one to raise their objections. For what it's worth, I tend to agree with Redandblack and Oldfella. Needs to be a system of penalising breaches, where a degree of pain is felt, but it doesn't cripple a club, which then has a negative flow on effect to the competition.

redandblack wrote:Fair enough, HTWWW, I just think many clubs genuinely go over through admin or similar errors.

I agree with you that there's a case for deliberate breaches to be handled differently.

When it's all settled, wouldn't it be nice if salary cap problems were a thing of the past.

Too much to hope for, I suppose.

Why don't club budget to be $10-20,000 under the cap? Surely doing that would eliminate a lot of these 'administrative errors'?

In respect to oldfella's comment, maybe the SANFL should check out the NBL's player points system (if indeed it is still in exsistence). I think that's kept a lot of NBL clubs in check with who they can afford to sign - but on the other side of the coin, it's also maybe a big reason as to why they struggle to sign quality talent on a regular basis (of course, there are exceptions but not many).

One problem with budgeting or reducing the cap that hasn't been thought about much, is the effect that has on players.

Just say a player is contracted for $15,000. A (say) 5% cut overall means a cut for a player who has done nothing to deserve a cut.

If a penalty was to reduce a club's cap by a large amount (if that was ever thought of as a penalty), it would be players who would suffer.

Another thing is that it is very difficult to keep a list genuinely under the salary cap. No problem if all are playing by the rules, but if some aren't, it's very hard to keep players.

Whatever some might say about playing for the jumper, finances are important and we've seen that in recent times with players leaving a cash-strapped Sturt and AFL players not coming back to West.

Cash strapped clubs will also come under attack from cashed up clubs for their players.

I am with R&B on this one.
Financial penalties can cripple struggling clubs.
And the sanfl should be doing more to assist that, but that's another issue.

Penalties should directly affect the area that it is relevant to and that is the playing situation.

Penalties like;
- salary cap reductions
- restrictions from recruiting
- restrictions from the draft system
- point losses

These go to the heart of a club's chances to be successful on field where they have transgressed.

Crippling a club is ridiculous.

But the enforcers like to beat their chests to show who is the biggest gorilla.

"Norwood, which will tonight begin its premiership defence in front of an estimated 7000 people at The Parade, was this month charged with breaching salary cap rules in 2012 but not the cap itself".

This to me as a Norwood supporter is the most curious part, and one I hope will be explained in full by the SANFL once the Norwood decision is finalised. I would have thought not stretching beyond the salary cap was the most important thing ..... just goes to show what I understand about salary caps.

Not sure what to think about minimum fines of $50,000. I can see both sides where the SANFL should be wary of financially crippling clubs and weakening the competition, but as was said, if a club knowingly went over the cap, then they were prepared to take that risk.

I just hope the SANFL are fair and examine every premiership team from now on in the fashion they have Norwood. Premiership celebrations may become a thing of the past. You win a GF, have a beer, buy a premiership t-shirt, then sit back for the next 6 months while the SANFL decide whether you have to burn your t-shirt or not.

I'm so disgruntled, I almost wish we hadn't won the damned thing.

The fine is $60K and a ban on recruiting for 18 months.

Firstly I owe everyone my sincerest apologies, I blindly followed what I was told by my club and by what was heard from this years AGM.

I am gutted that the club I love and have done since birth, would treat member/s with such arrogance in the face of what they clearly knew at the time.

I am told that the breach was not salary cap related but the payment of 3 only airfares for 3 separate players to and from Melbourne.

I take that with a pinch of salt as the trust between me and my club has been wounded, not mortally, because of the goodwill I still hold for all those who served the NFC in the past with pride, not this moronic lot.

That's $110,000 lost or the value of 1570 memberships.

There was 3 separate offences fined at $20,000 each and not all for 2012 offences.

I feel for club members and supporters like you Go Legs. Same with those similarly affected at West and Port.

Many non Redleg SANFL fans may take pleasure from a cheap shot or three but having all the main stream media report that the defending premier has penalised a record amount for salary cap "issues" damages the integrity of the whole competition.

This at a critial time when the league needs to keep AFL reserves sides out of the league comp to maintain its integrity.


A few questions for mine that I would like clarified to actually get an understanding of WTF just happened here..............

1) Did Norwood benefit from the error committed?

2) What penalty could they have got if they had not pled guilty?

3) Did the timing and especially nature of the departure of former Norwood official play a part in this error occurring?
(farewell gift?)

4) If the size of the penalty (largest for a breach of the rules so far) due more to
the specific breach identified or the fact it was the 3rd breach.
(ie is it like those 3 strike rules in the US where you can get a massive prison sentence for a relatively minor crime
simply because it is your 3rd offence.)

5) Why did this take investigation take so long and why from all the 176 days since the end of the season was it this announced on the night Norwood unveiled the 2012 premiership flag?

And on a more philsophical point ..
6) Is the current SANFL Salary Cap system too complex and does managing it take up too many club resoruces that
would be better allocated in generating growth & other income streams. is Is there a simpler way

Ah PhilH, the voice of reason. Very astute questions which, with your permission, I will ask at the Special Members Meeting I am sure the Club will be calling in the very near future.
Go Legs, could I suggest you go to that meeting and ask the questions you feel the club has lied/mislead you about? There is more to all this than you read in the media and I feel you are being a little emotive, understandably, without knowing BOTH sides of the story.
I know your love for the club and understand why you are feeling as you do but am concerned that this will do untold damage to your support for our club and the obvious enjoyment it gives you. Stay strong.
FORTIS IN PROCELLA mate.

So when will Norwood apologise to Chris Dittmar...

Brucetiki wrote:So when will Norwood apologise to Chris Dittmar...

I was wondering the same.

I shall attempt to answer some of your questions BP, and I really wish I could say what I really feel

PhilH wrote:

1) Did Norwood benefit from the error committed?

If you mean "gain any unfair advantage", then the answer is no.

2) What penalty could they have got if they had not pled guilty?

Imagine what penalty they could have got had they actually exceeded the salary cap.

3) Did the timing and especially nature of the departure of former Norwood official play a part in this error occurring?
(farewell gift?)

Can't add any more to this, but you are very much on the money.

4) If the size of the penalty (largest for a breach of the rules so far) due more to
the specific breach identified or the fact it was the 3rd breach.
(ie is it like those 3 strike rules in the US where you can get a massive prison sentence for a relatively minor crime
simply because it is your 3rd offence.)

I won't comment on this, otherwise I could kick someone where it really hurts

5) Why did this take investigation take so long and why from all the 176 days since the end of the season was it this announced on the night Norwood unveiled the 2012 premiership flag?

Why did this investigation take place at all? Because the SANFL need dobbers, or else they can't even start an investigation. (see question 3)

And on a more philsophical point ..
6) Is the current SANFL Salary Cap system too complex and does managing it take up too many club resoruces that
would be better allocated in generating growth & other income streams. is Is there a simpler way

Very strange the SANFL didn't want the latest development to be made public until after the completion of round 1, but it did anyway. Gives an indication of how big some mouths are within the hallowed walls of the SANFL.


A lot has transpired in my sojourn from Bangkok to Adelaide, I've been asking more questions this evening and not being pleased with what I am hearing. So much I'd love to say, but as they say in the classics, there are people, including the SANFL who can't handle the truth.

This whole episode troubles me, not because it's my club being done, but because of the personal agenga by some, and their motives. People need to be very wary of what's going on in SANFL football right now. Geez, I wish I could say more, and name names, but I just cannot, in the best interests of my club.

I'm pretty tired of the indignant attitude of the Norwood supporters on this matter. First we were told it's not even a rumour, then it was a baseless, malicious rumour, then it was a procedural point and any other interpretation of it could attract legal attention, then when Norwood was actually charged it was just an administrative error, and now that they've pleaded guilty and been given the biggest ever penalties for these sorts of breaches it's because someone at the SANFL has a personal agenda. You'll have to pardon my skepticism.