West now play 'Attacking Football'!!

FootE-Times is a really good publication and can be accessed via this site.

It's full of interesting comment and great stats.

This week's edition suddenly has two of the writers deciding that West are suddenly playing 'attacking football'.

Are they really suggesting, like so many others, that Andrew Collins has suddenly decided to tell them to attack?

In his game report, Collins said he smiles when this is said and notes that West's skill level is getting better.

I'd contend that almost all sides 'flood' their defence when they don't have the ball and when there's a slow build-up into attack by the opposition. I've seen all sides do it this year and have pointed it out to media people at the time. I've seen it at Under 18's games constantly.

It's fertile ground for a good discussion, not just abou West, but about game style and how your club plays.

It's also interesting that Port and South are well up on 'points for'.

Finally, I'd say that more important to West than flooding is the fact they have a great defence. Tippett, Hartlett and Ferguson are three class talls, and Caire, Green, Ben Fisher and others add pace and toughness.

Ladder total points for after Round 15
1172 Norwood
1148 Centrals
950 West
1055 Glenelg
1100 South
1000 North
934 Sturt
858 Eagles
1018 Port Adelaide

The Flood and Tars lead Sturt and Eagles for points for
Sturt have played one less game than the Flood and Tars
That means the Floods are effectively only in front of the Eagles

The 19-9 scored against Sturt is an improvement , and out of the 'blue'

I've never understood why some West supporters take exception to the flooding criticism. Surely they must desire their team to play a more attacking style, ala last week. It's more effective, and much more pleasant to watch.

I had the same criticism of my own team Norwood last season. Too much emphasis on keeping the opposition to less goals than us, not prepared to take risks and kick winning scores.

As proven yet again in last year's finals, this style struggles to be successful, certainly not against a team like Central District. Whereas Norwood's defense is still sound, Bassett has added a little more emphasis on attack, and IMHO, it is working well.

Rather than strangling a team all day and holding on to win by a couple of goals, like 2011, Norwood have won a majority of their games in 2012 by 3/4 time.

PLUS .... it's far more entertaining to watch. IMHO if West continue to kick 19 goals, they'll be a flag threat. If they elect to try an win games 6 goals to 5, they'll fail in finals.

Sure, we will still have the odd low scoring arm wrestle, but when it's happening every week, things have to change.

The Floods...

AH, how do you think it happens that West play a more attacking style 'a la last week'?

Do you think they're actually told to be more attacking? Do you think they practised a new game style that week and it just 'clicked'?

Or do you think that there was no change to their normal style, just better execution and straighter kicking for goal?

Flood - 90's football term
Zones - 00's football term
Structures - 10's football term

End result? The same.
Who plays that way? Pretty much everyone.
Who wins playing that way? The team whose skills permit them to break from defence quickly and efficiently enough to break the flood/zone/structure down.

All in all most teams play a similar style, it isn't just the "Flood n Tars" who end up with their 18 players in the defensive half of the ground.

In all honesty I think all clubs play very defensively in the modern game, the good ones just manage to move the ball quickly enough allowing them to score heavily. It isn't neccesarily an attacking stlye of play they are employing.

That is 100% correct, IMO.

Collins baffled by free kick count:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/collins-baffled-at-free-kick-count/story-fn525un5-1226423217412?from=public_rss

He wasn't the only one.

Even some of the Sturt fans (and on their forum) were baffled

the basic difference in the West i saw last saturday & the previous few years was they left 2 or 3 across half forward & when they went forward those players had 'Pagans Paddock' to run into which happened frequently last saturday

I read an interesting article on Westies today...

Here is an extract from it...

Steve Barrett, from Inside Football, wrote:
ATTACKING FLAIR FILLS BLOODS HEARTS WITH NEW HOPE

West Adelaide went some way towards shaking off its dour, defensive image in Saturday's 68-point demolition job of Sturt at City Mazda Stadium.

The Bloods put their foot down offensively, splitting the big sticks 19 times in an uncharacteristic four-quarter display of attacking flair.

Putting West's 19.9 (123) tally into perspective, it was the Bloods' third highest score of Collin's five-year, 93-match tenure at the helm - which has reaped a scoring average of 68.9 points per outing - and a far cry from the dreary outfit that had scraped together a total 20 goals across its pervious 12 quarters of football.

No one in SANFL circles doubts West's defensive capabilities, but if Collins's charges can consistently produce the goods in attack, they could develop into a force to be reckoned with.

redandblack wrote:AH, how do you think it happens that West play a more attacking style 'a la last week'?

Do you think they're actually told to be more attacking? Do you think they practised a new game style that week and it just 'clicked'?

Or do you think that there was no change to their normal style, just better execution and straighter kicking for goal?

I wasn't at the game, but the West I've seen a couple of times this year could never have kicked 19 goals because of the way they set up. Wolves said (and I believe it) that that played a 6 man forward structure rather than the usual 5. As many have said, everyone plays a similar style, but West (and Norwood before tham) have definitely been way too defensive.

When Central go forward, they always have numbers fill holes in attack whereas I've seen West & Norwood head to the centre and have absolutely nobody to kick to. You never or rarely see a Central player holding onto the ball across centre waiting for someone to kick the ball to. IMHO, the most effective scoring method is to have players presenting themsleves so you can move the ball quickly and effectively downfield before the opposition have a chance to fill the holes. They can't do this if they are continually having to sprint 150 metres from the back pocket. The ball by foot always moves quicker than a player can run.

I think Booney's description is spot on. And the problem for the competitions below AFL level (who all, inevitably, adopt the same methods) is that they have had the elite users of the ball plucked from their grades by the AFL, making it very hard to counter the defensive set-ups.

On the point of keeping some forwards up forward, if a forward's opponent takes himself up the ground as an extra number around the ball, the forward surely is obliged to follow him rather than leave the opposition with a loose man.

Totally agree, Flag9 (and Booney).

The number of forwards and the structures don't change, but the efficiency, pace and skill level does.

Any forward who let his defender run unmarked would soon be benched. As I said, all sides, without exception, have all their players around the ball if it's in the opposition's forward line if the ball is getting there slowly.

It's just not factual to say that the weeks that West win well is when they're playing 'attacking football' and when they lose or win narrowly, they flood.

Obviously if that was the case, they'd play so-called 'attacking football' every week.

The good thing, as referred to in that article (and by Andrew Collins), is that West's skill and talent level is getting better all the time.

The trouble with these flood tactics is they mainly ok when your team is winning , but often enough looks terrible when losing
Recent examples
West Adelaide in the last half of 2011
Norwood in the last 2 finals 2011
Woodville West Torrens in 2012

Ive been reading the Adelaide Hawk posts over the years
He yearns for man on man contests, players playing dedicated positions, and more fluency , as it was in the halycon days of the 70s and 80s

Footy these days is still a fab game , but is less entertaining at times
For example I will pick on West , because of the thread title
I will transgress back 30 years

West 2012 scores
12-9
7-15
10-10
11-13
10-12
15-12
5-9
15-9
12-11
8-8
4-12
8-5
19-9

West 1982 scores [finished 6th with 13 wins]
23-11
21-10
13-12
18-12
27-19
20-18
15-19
36-21
11-17
18-19
20-12
10-15
17-15
26-17
25-9
12-17
23-7
15-14
20-18
14-17
19-18
10-21

Bit of a difference in score lines
Different eras, different styles etc, but more entertaining

They were the good old days, scrappy

It really was entertaining then.

I'm pretty sure that score of 36.21 in 1982 was against West Torrens (I think I still have the Budget with the goalkickers I marked that day at Richmond).

I'm also fairly sure Mike Smith (his first game?, certainly his first season) kicked 8 goals from a half-forward flank.

Also interesting that West;s 2012 scores have 8 games with 10 goals or more and only 5 with less.

Then again, lies, damned lies and statistics

redandblack wrote:They were the good old days, scrappy

It really was entertaining then.

I'm pretty sure that score of 36.21 in 1982 was against West Torrens (I think I still have the Budget with the goalkickers I marked that day at Richmond).

I'm also fairly sure Mike Smith (his first game?, certainly his first season) kicked 8 goals from a half-forward flank.

36-21 West Adelaide
16-5 West Torrens
That game was round 8
Played at Richmond Oval
Crowd was 4,579 + Red and Black = 4,580

That game was a record score for West at the time, and still is
Mike Smith kicked 49 goals for the season
Roger Luders kicked 75 goals for the season

Keep the Budget R+B, 36-21, its a collectors item

Surely Redandblack the coach can instruct a team to play on at all costs.
Or stop holding the ball up and switching.
Flooding is flooding, you push numbers back, you slow the tempo down and you choke the space a forward can lead into. The cost is your forward line has to run hard into their own area when the side gets the ball.
Players in possession then have to hold the ball up and wait for some players to get back and then present.It is a tactic RB... can't deny that.
The score-lines do reflect the style.

Now last Saturday was a revelation because they did play on and they did kick long. They converted which did help.
Personnel has changed a bit as we now have a few more runners, Crouch,Laird and Bricknell and Caire are runners plus Silverlock's leg is a weapon if he kicks long and quick.
I'm not against the defensive style at all but I truly believe that Collo does set the tone and if he set the structures as more man on man or traditional positions (if you like) then scoring will come as a forward isn't competing against extra bodies.
The mindset is there though now, they are a very disciplined team which can play good defence. Collins can stress attack, he can demand a more attacking style he just needs to commit to it and keep preaching quick movement.
He is the coach, he can state that nothing has changed but the moment he options to throw extra men around the ball or into defence it is a concious decision to dictate the pace of a game. The opposite is also true, he can encourage a more attacking style with both words and deeds.
If this wasn't true how would a new coaches ever be able to came in and stamp his mark on a team by changing a teams game style ala Sanderson, Nunan or Kerley.

You make a lot of good points, CB and I think your comments about the personnel we now have with pace and kicking ability is the one I think has had the most effect.

I think Collins has wanted them to attack for a long time, but doing it in practice is much harder if you don't have the personnel.

For example, even very good teams find it hard to score against Norwood, but they can score heavilty with the same game plan against other teams.

Last week they kicked straight, too - 19.9.

So true RB, it is amazing what straight kicking does for a team confidence and mine as well. Really hope they've turned the corner because they were a treat to watch last week.

From what I saw against port west fans r dreaming

Millsy I did say from what I saw last Saturday it was a revelation.
I might wake up next week and were back to scoring 6-8 goals for the game.
Hope not.

well i heard A.Collins on the radio today & paraphrasing he said ''i like defensive football because defensive football wins finals'' or something like that......kicking more than the opposition wins you games in my book


ps, yes i know defence helps as well

redandblack wrote:Also interesting that West;s 2012 scores have 8 games with 10 goals or more and only 5 with less.

Then again, lies, damned lies and statistics

Stats are interseting. Of those 8 games how many were 15+ goals as I always think 15 goals wins you most games of footy.