Sturt's Financial Position

Maybe one of the Sturt members might like to post the exact figure, but here are some approximate figures,

Loss of 450k, this was previously a 650k loss, but the hard work of the debt demolition fund was able to meet around 200k of last seasons debt.

Barzaar made money, don't have the exact figure.

Castle Tavern ran at a loss, rounded out to around 24k.

Rumour mill suggests that Commander are no longer sponsoring for the naming rights and that other sponsors have not come good with the promised funds.

Like West, some Poker machines have been sold or are to be sold to recoup some debt repayment.

Various other smaller details, but that is the nuts and bolts of it.

Anyway there is a rumour doing the rounds that several SFC members are suggesting to the club that they want them to pursue meetings with the Crows to become the Reserves Team for the AFC. The point has been made that they must get in first before West Adelaide beat them to it. Conversely a number of SFC people I have spoken to will not accept it at all.

Some random thoughts are these,

Why is it assumed by people that the AFC would take over any club in the SANFL in the first place? They themselves are in debt as are the SANFL, I am not sure the AFC would commit themselves to a debt laden concern as easily as people think they might.

The second question being considering the fact that Sturt would lose so much of their heritage by being taken over by the AFC and there is the point, its not an amalgamation, its a straight out takeover, would not the same people calling for this takeover not get a better deal for the club if they were to merge with another SANFL side as Woodville and West Torrens did?

A little like fishing Ben?

John Halbert stood up and offered that Sturt become Crows #2 side.
Not generally accepted by members per se, just a comment. And who knows what Halbert's motivations were.

Secondly we need to separate repayment of principal (via the debt demoition money) vs P&L reporting.

You seem to know the numbers, so lets just report them as they are without the "random thoughts" and "don't have the exact figures".

I think that you do given the numbers posted are reasonably accurate.

Why don't we just call it like it is.

And that is that a 450K loss is not what was expected. But the positive is that 200K was shaved off our loan principal - and that is not a P&L number.

Added to that we have another 180K to be shaved off the principal from sale of 4 pokies.

1 person's AFC takeover suggestion, does not make it happen. There has been quite a bit of commentary about this, but I think you will find that most members if offered that scenario, will walk away from the building as what results will not be Sturt. It may look like Sturt, but not the version I have been supporting for 40 years.

So in simple terms lets just call it like it is. And this has absolutely nothing to do with beating West or anyone else to the Crows punch.

End of tirade.

How about a West-Sturt merger Chambo?

Those figures are very worrying. I hope Sturt can find a 'white knight' to help them. We need a strong Sturt to survive.

West becoming a Crows Reserve side has never been mentioned at Richmond that I know of.

Yeah I don't think they need to rush to beat West to that one.

The issue Chambo with reporting figures is that I have only read what others have posted online, I was not at the AGM nor do I have any confirmation of the figures from the club. The issue with posting material on a forum is that its thrown straight into the public forum and debated, if the figures are not exact and are not being quoted from primary documents then the debate can easily be based around false statements which is not my intention. Also I don't then have explanations for set items which the club could quite rightly use to explain their position such as the debt reduction programme and where its hitting first in terms of strategy and so on.

In terms of Poker Machine venues in general, the following is quite factual, since contracts with various groups were signed, electricity prices have increased along with council rates and various other costs far in excess of CPI, along with the government take on profits from the machines. I gather that the Castle Tavern has had increased rates, electricity costs amongst other costs to deal with that have put the screws down on the profit margin. Rental in a Shopping complex can be a mixed bag, good numbers through the door, many more $$$ per week in rent to be paid for that foot traffic as opposed to a stand alone concern.

Another issue that many are not aware of is that many Poker Machine players are now using Online Gaming where the selections are far greater of ways to lose your money. You don't have to leave your home and you can gamble with your smart phone. Rumour has it that you will soon be able to place bets via your Foxtel remote on sports being shown in real time. This suggests to me that Poker Machine revenues have peaked and are now on the way down.

The problem is the least may not be easy to get out of, for the club, no one is going to take it on at a loss and the landlord is not going to be concerned about it until the next time the lease comes around for renewal. The issue then becomes the question of what the clubs intentions are towards the future of the Castle as a venue, are they going to try and trade out of it or are they going to unload it? Either way its more money and something no doubt that members should expect a statement from the club on?

is John Halbert still involved in any role for the SANFL or its commission ? if yes for him to ask that question about joining the Crows makes me think he would know something & perhaps the doom is very dark indeed, so to suggest a merger how dark can it be ?

how about Sturt getting blokes like Davies, Bagshaw, Graham, Nunan etc having a huge 'sportsmens day/night & trying to raise money that way, i'm sure those people would do it for nothing & lets say $100.00 per head at Unley Oval with a crowd of 5,000 & there is $500,000.00 to start with, don't worry about meals just have a BBQ, Chips & food like that for an afternoon, they could even do it as a promotion for the start of the season & may get extra members, however sitting around doing nothing wont help any situation they may be in

Are Sturt's financial statements on-line or available?

As bad as they are, at least Westies published theirs.

redandblack wrote:Are Sturt's financial statements on-line or available?

As bad as they are, at least Westies published theirs.

Looks like it's time for Chambo and I to step into the kitchen and take a bit of the heat off you.
For starters I really don't know what the Sturt Football Club's policy is regarding publicly releasing financial returns, nor where they would post them anyway. Matt Benson has a "Thing" about online forums and as the CEO I guess it's mainly up to him what goes out the door. But I'll certainly be in contact with him next week. They're bound to be put out there by somebody and IMO it's better that it's done in a responsible way. What I can say is that the most immediate concern is the collapse of returns from Castle Tavern and to a lesser degree Barzaar. The latter at least made a profit, although it was down on expectations. Castle Tavern, on the other hand has gone from a healthy profit to a loss in the space of 2 years. It goes without saying that all options are on the table at this stage. In my personal opinion, and I stress personal, John Halbert's suggestion cannot be dismissed out of hand. I'm not surprised that it was raised, in fact I may have done so myself if nobody else had, because we can't ignore the plain fact that the football landscape has changed beyond recognition over the past decade or so. I'm working on a post regarding the future relations between the two SA based AFL franchises and the domestic clubs. Particularly in the light of the West Australian developments. I'm getting all my facts together first, as is my way. I'm not into knee jerk reactions.

Thanks for that, cc.

I presume the members get the financials, so no big deal to put them on the official website.

Perhaps they are there?

Just to carry this a little further, here is a link to the WAFC statement on their so-called "Partnering Model" Just two observations at this stage.
1. There are major flaws in this arrangement IMO. Particularly the fact that in the end, it was rammed through without giving club members any real say. Any SA model would need to be a great improvement on this.
2. We need to get away from emotive terms like "Take over" "Getting into bed" etc and look at the thing as a business arrangement - which is what it is.

http://www.wafootball.com.au/wafl/3460-partnering-model-for-the-wafl-competition

redandblack wrote:Thanks for that, cc.

I presume the members get the financials, so no big deal to put them on the official website.

Perhaps they are there?

Members ger a copy, but not on the website at this stage. I'll speak to Matt about that.

Make sure you get ALL the facts Country Cousin. I mean ALL .

waddayamean wrote:Make sure you get ALL the facts Country Cousin. I mean ALL .

That is certainly my intention. I'd only consider supporting such a scheme if I was completely convinced that it was in the best interests of both the Sturt FC and the SANFL competition. I recognize that we sink or swim together. There are clearly serious flaws in the WAFC model. Here's a link to "ozfooty.net" forum, which is highly critical of the arrangement and raises some very valid points. All I've said so far is that the issue of AFL reserves isn't going away and as I said in my earlier post, dismissing it out of hand isn't the way to deal with it Nor is rushing into it, as my old school mate John Halbert suggested.

http://ozfooty.net/joomla16/footy-forum/wafl-general-chat/104-afl-partnering-model-review-by-cop-group-of-seve

From Localfootysa...

Matt Benson suggesting the AFL should support SANFL clubs more...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/afl-must-better-support-sanfl-clubs-sturt-chief-warns/story-e6frea83-1226580140255

I put this on DB.org in response to the AGM Financial Report.
Benno and I seem to be on the same page with respect to the sanfl's support.

Many SFC supporters often spruke the "role your sleeves up and help where you can ethos". Truly I applaud the sentiment of getting dirty and on with the job. I don't disagree with any of that.

But is this going to be enough?

Last year we had a $300K+ loss. Actually $400+K I was corrected.
This year a $400K+ loss. Actually $450K+ I was corrected.

These are huge deficits in a budget that I doubt another 50 Vice Presidents (Sturt's upper $ end classification) memberships, swapping health insurers (club gets incentives on transfers to Australian Unity) and other coal face measures are going to cover. Sure every bit helps, not questioning that.

But we seem to need big end changes.

Interest only payments on what is a very large debt cannot continue indefinitely. Has the bank only allowed that because we will have effectively sliced $380K of the principal last year?

It is often quoted that we run on the 'smell of an oily rag'.
Take $600,000 out of that oily rag and will the car run? (The amount that Sturt will slash off its Footy Dept this season).
This is approaching double the total salary cap, isn't it?
This seems an awfully large amount to trim from a footy department, so I hope it is feasible.

But all the same, some sort of generational financial strategy change seems needed.

Could we do it without the pokies? If the venues as a whole with pokie income returns just $60K, are they worth the bother and are other revenue streams possible to cover it. In the face of diminishing returns from pokie sources, are they going to decrease as the gravy train of revenue for clubs. Should we offload them now? Not sure, I just question it.

But for the losses continuing to be so big, a marked change in financial strategy seems warranted to me.

And for what its worth, I don't believe the sanfl are doing enough to support clubs. Especially when many are similarly and regularly posting losses. They could be assisting more with gearing clubs toward alternate or collective revenue raising (and even cost saving) measures.

West don't need to be concerned about this alleged "race" to the #2 Crows outfit. It was just speculated by someone that we should get in before they consider it. Like it is going to be another gravy train to success.

Many SFC supporters I know wouldn't go for that in either form of the proposition. IE Adelaide players being aligned to Sturt. Or the Crows take over the playing and/or admin operations. My Sturt is not what I grew to follow under either of those scenarios. End of snafl story for this little duck if those circumstances come to fruition.

Ben W, I wasn't having a go at you. I (and I guess CC too) were just trying to present the situation as we know it, without the froth and bubble that goes along with some of these reports.

Lord knows R&B has been trying to do that for a fortnight with respect to the West situation.

Hopefully, something can be worked out, because I suspect the club is ultimately going to need a solution on quite a large scale.

Lots of problems at Sturt and I am not talking about the team. Off field there are some very big concerns . I'm hearing not enough people asking valid and fair questionns and if they do they are brushed aside. I know all are invited to contact the club and discuss things however I am informed it's spin.

i don't like what i read on here or with that link of the Sturt article, i'm starting to think it may be a lot worse than anyone realises, hopefully not as we need every club vibrant & each making some money

I don't think Sturt's grim situation should come as a surprise to any serious SANFL supporter. It's a shame that clubs can coerce the direction of AGM's as some have suggested occurred last week with the SFC, I have seen this happen several times at other clubs. I would like to hear from someone at the SANFL about what their vision is for our competition now, in the near future and for the longer term.

Whatever problems West have, they can be resolved. It seems that Sturt are basically insolvent, or close to it. Certainly another year with a big loss would confirm that and be a huge problem.

My attitude is that the SANFL can't possibly afford to lose Sturt, or any club. I agree with scrunch about the direction for the SANFL.

It would appear that Sturt will be paying well below the salary cap this season, which means they will find it hard to compete unless they're lucky with AFL availability.

That might be a price they have to pay to survive, but let's hope they do survive.

We need a strong Sturt to re-emerge.

No worries Chambo! I did not think that in the first place so its all good.

Some facts
- Sturt are paying well below the cap
- the players have taken a pay cut
- the club has no vision
- there seems to be no accountability off field.
- talk is cheap

redandblack wrote:Whatever problems West have, they can be resolved. It seems that Sturt are basically insolvent, or close to it. Certainly another year with a big loss would confirm that and be a huge problem.

My attitude is that the SANFL can't possibly afford to lose Sturt, or any club. I agree with scrunch about the direction for the SANFL.

It would appear that Sturt will be paying well below the salary cap this season, which means they will find it hard to compete unless they're lucky with AFL availability.

That might be a price they have to pay to survive, but let's hope they do survive.

We need a strong Sturt to re-emerge.

Without the Debt demolition contribution and the sale of the pokies, you may well be right.
However, this has just bought us some time, especially with the interest only component of the debt repayment for now.
Not a long term outlook we all would agree.

waddayamean wrote:Some facts
- Sturt are paying well below the cap
- the players have taken a pay cut
- the club has no vision
- there seems to be no accountability off field.
- talk is cheap

The first 2 are facts.
The latter 3 are opinion and I would be happy to be enlightened on some 'facts' in relation to them.