SANFL Night Grand Final

by Big Phil Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:46 am

What do you think? Would it be a good idea? Would you go?

I think it would be a great atmosphere and would love to see how it would go.

From Localfootysa...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/sanfl-closes-in-on-television-deal-with-abc/story-e6freckc-1226274235692

Localfootysa article wrote:

A NIGHT SANFL grand final could be staged as early as next year.

Chief executive Leigh Whicker has described the break from tradition as a "no-brainer" while league powerbrokers have had preliminary discussions about making the SANFL's biggest game a prime-time event.

Just days after Collingwood president Eddie McGuire called on the AFL to shift its grand final to a night time slot, SANFL supremo Whicker said it is only a matter of time before the SANFL makes the move.

He floated the possibility of the league also staging a night preliminary final.

"For us to play our grand final at night, to me it is a no-brainer," Whicker said.

"I think it's certainly something we need to look at."

SANFL football operations manager Darren Chandler said the league had "internally" discussed playing its showcase game at night.

But he said no timeframe had been set for pushing through a move.

"It's certainly something that has been discussed and will continue to be discussed because we are very open to the idea and see some real positives with it," Chandler said.

"However at this point in time we are committed to the ABC telecast (of its grand final) being on Sunday afternoons.

"Because of the ABC situation - where it wants to telecast the grand final during the day - we haven't taken our discussions any further."

The SANFL is locked in discussions with the ABC over whether it will broadcast matches at all this season but Chandler expressed confidence that a deal would get done "in the next few days".

"We're hopeful that we're close to reaching an agreement for 2012 and obviously we want to extend that further," he said.

It is understood the SANFL will cough up more than the $70,000 it contributed to the broadcasts last year, despite its current financial troubles.

Chandler said it would canvas the views of its nine league clubs before making any decision about a night grand final.

"We have to consider the clubs and what it means for them," he said.

"You always look at the best options to maximising your crowd and there's no doubt if the game falls on the long weekend then playing on a Saturday night works.

"But there are a range of other factors to consider, such as what a night grand final would mean for after-match celebrations or commiserations."

Night football has been a raging success at SANFL home-and-away games, with Glenelg the latest club to be granted permission to host night games. It will stage five this season.

Despite pressure from McGuire, who argued the world's greatest sporting events are staged at night, the AFL has declared it will continue to play its grand final on Saturday afternoons.

"Our position is one where we take great pride in playing our grand final on a Saturday afternoon, which people have built a great tradition around," chief executive Andrew Demetriou said.

"We play most of our other finals at night - we think we've got the balance right."

by Adelaide Hawk Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

I've followed Norwood and the SANFL since the mid-1960s. To me, my football time is Saturday afternoon. I used to love the Friday night build up, talks about the game in the pub after work, then out to the game the next day.

I've come to accept footy on a Friday evening, but when it is played outside these two time slots, I struggle with it. For one who has other interests besides footy, I find playing one week on Saturday afternoon, next on a Friday night, then on a Sunday, etc. can be disruptive. I miss far too many games than I wish to.

I never ever thought we would have Grand Finals on a Sunday, but we do. I still dream of a Saturday afternoon Grand Final back on Adelaide Oval.

One thing I do know is I am fed up with playing our Grand Final a week after the AFL one .. and on a Sunday!! If we had to have a night Grand Final, I would then favour ALL finals played at nights, and my preference would be Friday night.

To end our season the evening before the AFL Grand Final would be far more acceptable to me than what we do now.

by Brucetiki Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:57 am

I would be very reluctant to have our Grand Final the night before the AFL Grand Final as the AFL Grand Final would completely overshadow it.

If there was to be a night Grand Final, it would have to be on a Saturday night. Friday night would be too problematic getting to the game form work for a lot of people, and you can't spend the day preparing/relaxing for the big game as most of us would have to work. Sunday night would be terrible if it's not on the long weekend for obvious reasons. I would still have it the week after the AFL Grand Final so the SANFL gets the extra coverage in the week leading up to the Grand Final.

I wouldn't object to a Saturday night Grand Final but reluctant to have it on a Friday or Sunday night Grand Final.

by howthewestwaswon Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:24 pm

It depends on where it is played in the future IMO. Will Football Park be kept and reduced in capacity or will they move it to Adelaide Oval too?

A Friday night GF at Adelaide could be great but has to be scheduled away from AFL GF.

by C.K Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:24 pm

Personally think this is a no-brainer. Resounding YES from me, but dependent on when etc (which day).

Agreeing with the AFL overshadowing it point, I think it still gets a touch lost whenever its held, which is no fault of the SANFL or club. Make it a night game and it takes on a whole new dimension.

by bayman Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:02 pm

i could be cynical but is the AFL asking the SANFL to stage a night grand final to see how it goes ? i ask this because i'm almost certain the VFL (as it was) only introduced sunday games when they saw how successful they were in adelaide (i know sunday was VFA day back then)

ps, i don't care when, where, how or why etc i just want Glenelg to win the flag Cool

by Chambo Off To Work We Go Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:11 pm

[quote="Adelaide Hawk"]I've followed Norwood and the SANFL since the mid-1960s. To me, my football time is Saturday afternoon. I used to love the Friday night build up, talks about the game in the pub after work, then out to the game the next day.

I've come to accept footy on a Friday evening, but when it is played outside these two time slots, I struggle with it. For one who has other interests besides footy, I find playing one week on Saturday afternoon, next on a Friday night, then on a Sunday, etc. can be disruptive. I miss far too many games than I wish to.

I never ever thought we would have Grand Finals on a Sunday, but we do. I still dream of a Saturday afternoon Grand Final back on Adelaide Oval.

quote]

I am 100% with you up to this point. A wiser man never spoke.
Let's face what we most like about sanfl is the traditional nature of it and that is what the AFL is not.
Maybe us older fogies, like to associate with what we grew up with. And essentially that works.
If you start messing with that formula, you make the sanfl something it has never been and chasing some afl-like ideaology that I doubt we can ever reach.
If there were some tangible evidence that the sanfl football going public wanted alternate formats, then ok.
But has there been any overwhelming evidence of this? Not that I have heard.
I do hope that the sanfl looks at this with a balanced viewpoint and not any convenient slant that presents what they may want to see.

Without wishing to dredge up old debate, and I know R&B may disagree, but I do have concern whether the rank and file patrons are truly listened to in these discussions.

Hopefully this is meaningfully canvassed publically before any radical decisions are made to alter the finals format.

by Lee Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:24 pm

No, I can't find anything to disagree with what you and AH say, Chambo.

Although SANFL crowds are up, I think this is a fragile increase and patrons do need to be listened to.

I'm pretty confident, though, that the SANFL make decisions based on what they think will benefit the competition. They get some right, they get some wrong, but the motives are good.

by spell_check Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:30 pm

bayman wrote:i could be cynical but is the AFL asking the SANFL to stage a night grand final to see how it goes ? i ask this because i'm almost certain the VFL (as it was) only introduced sunday games when they saw how successful they were in adelaide (i know sunday was VFA day back then)

ps, i don't care when, where, how or why etc i just want Glenelg to win the flag

The SANFL first started to regularly schedule Sunday matches in 1977. Some councils would not permit it at first, though I'm not sure when they relented. The VFL could not schedule Sunday matches due to the Victorian government disallowing it. For whatever reason, the VFA was allowed and certainly capitalised on it. Then came the move of South Melbourne to Sydney and hey presto, live telecasts on Sunday into Victorian homes to compete with VFA matches and telecasts. They also of course had the Reserves on Sundays too, to make sure the VFA would suffer a slow and painful death. Finally, 10 years after the SANFL had Sunday Footy, the VFL was able to schedule them in 1987.

by countrycousin Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:38 pm

Adelaide Hawk's comments reflect my own view perfectly and of course COTWWG knows me pretty well from doubleblue.org. In fact my association with the SANFL and my club, Sturt, goes back even further. My earliest football memories are of finals at Adelaide Oval in about 1947/8 and of collecting bottles as a small kid on the mounds at Unley during games around that time. I've tried to move with the times and I think I've managed it fairly well, but I'm afraid I've never adapted to night football. Ageing eyes certainly don't help. Wink

But like all true club supporters, I'll be there, whenever and wherever the boys are playing, as long as I can still make it. It's just that I'd rather it was on a Saturday afternoon. Smile

by Sabre Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:46 am

To be honest 'BP', I'd say "Thanks, but no thanks."

It’s time we went ‘Back FOR The Future’. First, let me say that to me, the un-AFL epitomises everything that is wrong about sport. No guts, no decency, no heart, no tradition, no reality. Just monumental greed, corruption, cruelty and stupidity (Reminds me of a certain forum). Laughing

The letters S.A.N.F.L. should stand for Saturdays And No Feral Leagues. It was Saturdays and Saturdays only, that made our competition great, for both minor and major rounds. We are creatures of habit, fooling around with that winning formula destroys what advantages we have over the enforced Victorian joke-league. And stuffs up various weekend plans for families etc.

S.A. & W.A. still enjoy traditional leagues and I believe it’s only by keeping to traditional habits that we have any chance of surviving, competing and hopefully thriving enough to fight back. Who cares if traitors want to follow all the plastic made up teams at every hour of the day? Let them! The un-AFL will make certain that they have limited success, they’ll just face season after season of disappointment and deservedly so. Wake up un-AFL fans, they just want to control everything, especially OUR players. We know most Premierships will go to the Melbourne based clubs to keep the sheep interested. Make no mistake, the un-AFL is a Business with a capital B. And they WILL keep their major shareholders happy! They don't give a stuff about real clubs like ours. We're just 'battery farms' to them. EVERY CLUB IN EVERY STATE HAS A RIGHT TO EARN A PLACE IN THE HIGHEST COMPETITION IN THE LAND !!! (Except the recent plastic make believe teams that were formed to keep all the true clubs down)

What we MUST fight is the un-AFL’s bribery, when and where necessary, but otherwise ignore the crazy changes to our game that the demented enemy make. We should be putting all our efforts into educating our young men to be patriots of The Game and put South Australia (or their state), first, foremost and only. If ever a huge worldwide corporation with a sense of decency and a healthy wallet was needed to fight an evil empire for eternal gratitude and corporate loyalty, then here we are. The grassroots past, present and future of the greatest game on earth. Help us make a true National League and reap all the justified, morally sound profits.

It’s quite cathartic to tell the truth.
Very Happy

Luv,
Sabre.

by testy Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:40 am

Another old fogie's thoughts here. There is nothing wrong with the set up of the SANFL final system as it stands and see no reason to stage a night grand final. I also have been a long time supporter of our great comp. and have been going to matches for near on 45 years.

Our comp. took a big hit when the Cows came into existance in 1991 but has still been able to survive all be it with much smaller crowds. I am a traditionalist and proud of that and tradition has got the SANFL where it is today. I believe our grand final day is great the way it is, the only change I would like to see is that our grand final is played a week before the AFL grand final and not the week after. I will continue to go to watch my team play in this great comp. cheers all.

by Flag No.10 Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:36 pm

I think if it's another Centrals v Eagles GF this year, playing it at night would be helpful in avoiding some of the staleness that that fixture would otherwise have.

by Ben W Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:50 pm

I have to say that I love the Tradition of the SANFL very passionatley, yet I also concede that the SANFL must change if it is to survive. There is little point of having tradition if that tradition chokes the life out of the club and kills it in the process.

The SANFL faces a situation where there are many more sports in competition with it and less media attention and less sponsorship dollar to keep the clubs going, hence the move to Poker Machines.

Consider how your employer might fare if they put up the blinkers and refused to change with the market. Odds are their market share would deplete to the point where they would eventually end up as a minor player or would simply fall over. KFC could still be Kentucky Fried Chicken with just Chicken on the menu, yet rebranding and new product ranging has them smashing their opposition despite various firms trying to knock them off.

For the SANFL to survive and to grow it has to have a component of it that is a night time competition. Whilst I am not over thrilled at the idea, I accept that a night Grand Final is not a case of if but when. Moving it to have more media coverage and more chance of it being a sell out is the best commercial decision for the SANFL.

The two issues that the SANFL must deal with is the Night Football component of the SANFL and equal access to it for all clubs. The second being the footprint of the SANFL in the suburbs. Both require traditions to change, doing nothing however will in time end those traditions anyway. I know what I would prefer.

by Southee Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Im all for it.....the one negative I see is there being a big "feral" supporter element creep into the game.

If done right it could be very exciting and also bring a few neutral supporters to the GF. Wink

by Sabre Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:05 am

I respect what you’re saying Ben W and Southee, please don’t get me wrong. Agreed we must remain flexible in our thinking, but my over-riding point pertaining to the main element of this thread is that change for the sake of change will make our product less attractive through inconsistency. Let the Vic garbage programme around us! Even fans of the un-AFL continually bitch about all the crazy time slots over the course of a weekend. BINGO! That’s where the SANFL can offer itself as a far better option and compete. I firmly believe that the biggest demographic of football fans want to be able to rely on a traditional and consistant timetable to plan their time and expenditure. We’ll lose that advantage if we chop and change. Not only that, but we have the chance to get un-AFL fans to our local games on the Saturday that suits them whilst they record the other 'unforgivable' team they follow on telly.
Laughing

The non-stop experimental attitude of the enforced Victorian joke league is quite simply committing loyalty suicide by all their never ending day / time fixture fiddling. This we must never do. We are the football product answer to what the majority are screaming for as far as what major fan numbers continually say they want. If we fart around with our advantageous strength of attractive scheduling, we will be seen as not only admitting to being inferior by programming around the un-AFL, but also destroying a major selling point of our own great product.

To use the most accurate Aussie Rules directive of all time … “Don’t p!ss around the boundaries when you have the right team to kick it up the guts !!!”
cheers

Luv,
Sabre

by Adelaide Hawk Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:13 am

I guess my point is we've been watching footy under lights for 50 years now, and for some reason it's still looked at as something new and exciting. Unless there is a real need tfor the change, why do it? Change for change sake is one of the things I'll never understand about the psyche of football administrators.

by testy Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:36 am

Some great thoughts here but I just don't see any benefit for the SANFL to play one game, the grand final, under lights.
There have been more changes just in the last 2 years of our comp. with the introduction of more night games during the minor rounds than any other time that I can remember, with more clubs coming on board (Glenelg) to play at night, so the people in charge haven't been sitting on there hands doing nothing as far as changes are concerned.
I don't see the survival (I think thats a little dramatic) of the SANFL relying on one game to be played at night.

by Gingernuts Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:29 pm

Having grown up mostly in the post-AFL era I only have a passing interest in the SANFL (put down those pitchforks and burning torches gents Laughing

). I have a casual allegiance to South as my younger brother played juniors and a few senior games for them a few years ago, but rarely do I attend games these days.

I have been to a couple of grand finals as a casual observer and I have found they have lacked atmosphere and didn't really appeal to me at all. I didn't feel like there was anything that really separated the game from the general Sat afternoon minor round game, bar a larger crowd in attendance.

Personally I would love to attend a night GF, particularly if it ends up being at the Adelaide Oval. I reckon it would be a lot easier to build up some hype and atmosphere for what is supposed to be the penultimate game of the SANFL season.

by Chambo Off To Work We Go Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:48 pm

This is probably where the alignment on this argument will come.
Those younger football followers brought up on the AFL style razza mattaz will have more allegiance to night footy.

Us older types that still get close enough to smell the linament at local footy will prefer what that has been over the years.

Not exclusively of course, but perhaps as a generalisation.

This not to have a go at you Gingernuts.

But this is probably just what the sanfl will have to grapple with to maintain relevance as was alluded to in a previous post.

Most of us traditionalists may have to let go a bit, in order for a new breed of sanfl supporter to come through.

by bayman Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:16 pm

Adelaide Hawk wrote:I guess my point is we've been watching footy under lights for 50 years now, and for some reason it's still looked at as something new and exciting.

AH, well exactly, but for some reason footy seems a better spectacle under lights (even though sometimes it is slippery with the dew), i draw the comparison to my 'other love' the trots & the horses run the same times whether it be a day or night meeting however the spectacle is a lot better than during the day & they seem faster under lights....i can't explain it but it does & perhaps it's the same for footy, well i think it is Wink

by Lee Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:20 pm

I agree with you, Bayman, about the spectacle.

It also seems a long time ago that I used to 'call' the trots to a tape recorder at Wayville Smile

As for a night Grand Final, I'm also a traditionalist, but giving it a try once wouldn't bother me.

Isn't the NSW RL final at night?

State of Origin certainly is and if it raises the profile of the SANFL, I wouldn't be against a trial.

by Adelaide Hawk Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:48 pm

bayman wrote:
Adelaide Hawk wrote:I guess my point is we've been watching footy under lights for 50 years now, and for some reason it's still looked at as something new and exciting.

AH, well exactly, but for some reason footy seems a better spectacle under lights (even though sometimes it is slippery with the dew), i draw the comparison to my 'other love' the trots & the horses run the same times whether it be a day or night meeting however the spectacle is a lot better than during the day & they seem faster under lights....i can't explain it but it does & perhaps it's the same for footy, well i think it is

Being flippant for a moment, I would draw a further comparison with cricket. Tests played during the day, limited over cricket (usually) at night. Is that to create the "illusion" that the truncated form of the game is as good as Test cricket? I think you're on to something here Smile

I've seen a lot of night football over the years and am not convinced it's a better spectacle, or creates a better atmosphere. I recall watching Adelaide Crows play Collingwood one night at Football Park, there were over 30,000 people there, and all I could hear was the sound of the ball getting kicked, and 30,000 people breathing. It was the most dull football game I've ever witnessed. Smile

Last year I saw North Melbourne play Port Adelaide from the hospitality of a corporate box. The only atmosphere being created that night was to see how many free beers I could consume before the final siren rang.

We'll have to agree to disagree because I'd take a Saturday afternoon game of football every time over a night game.

by Brucetiki Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:09 pm

redandblack wrote:
Isn't the NSW RL final at night?

Used to be. Went to a twilight Grand Final a few years ago, I believe to make it a bit more of a 'family friendly' time slot

by Adelaide Hawk Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:36 am

Brucetiki wrote:
redandblack wrote:
Isn't the NSW RL final at night?

Used to be. Went to a twilight Grand Final a few years ago, I believe to make it a bit more of a 'family friendly' time slot

Yes, I was going to make this point as well. People with young families wouldn't be able to attend because the evening would be too late for the kids, whereas a day game is an afternoon out for the family.

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