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After 5 rounds in the SANFL we had a peculiar in the SANFL Premiership Ladder
This is from the Advertiser

Norwood
4 wins
1 loss
435 for
279 against
60.9 percentage

West Adelaide
4 wins
1 loss
470 for
302 against
60.9 percentage

Both sides the same wins and %
Norwood was listed on top , but , it could have been West, you can only list 1 team on top at a time

This is what I dont understand
I would have thought West should be listed on top ?

West have scored 35 more points
West have a differential of for and against of 168 points, Norwood has 156 points
West therefore are a 12 point better performed side than Norwood

Would Norwood be listed on top, because they beat West , as a way of separating the teams on the ladder ?

No, it would be that Norwood have a better percentage to two decimal places.

SA percentage gives a weighting to defensive effectiveness. The way the Victorians work out percentage is better, IMO.

(Victorians giving 4 points for a win is absurd, though).

redandblack wrote:No, it would be that Norwood have a better percentage to two decimal places.

SA percentage gives a weighting to defensive effectiveness. The way the Victorians work out percentage is better, IMO.

(Victorians giving 4 points for a win is absurd, though).

c'mon r&b percentage is ''out of a hundred'' so how can percentage be above 100 ? as for the points well whether it's 2,4 or 10 it is the same for all teams, so it doesn't really matter & they probably went 4 because the Victorians (wrongly) thought they were twice as good as us

It is 60.92 to 60.88

http://www.sanfl.com.au/league/ladders/

redandblack wrote:No, it would be that Norwood have a better percentage to two decimal places.

SA percentage gives a weighting to defensive effectiveness. The way the Victorians work out percentage is better, IMO.

(Victorians giving 4 points for a win is absurd, though).

The Victorian method gives the same weighting to defensive effectiveness. Using the Victorian method Norwood would still be on top 155.91% compared to West's 155.63%.

The following example highlights the way the Victorian percentage still favours the defensive team.

In Round 1, team A defeats team B 100 points to 60, a margin of 40 points. Team A's percentage using the Victorian method is 166.67%

In the same round if team C defeats team D 50 points to 30, a margin of 20 points, Team C's percentage would be identical to team A, 166.67%

Using the SA method both teams would have a percentage of 62.5%.

I have known of the folly of this since 1969. If Spelly has a premiership table from the second last round of the SANFL of that year, North and Torrens had almost identical percentages, Torrens had kicked something like 8 points more than North and let through 7 points more, yet North had the higher percentage. From that day forward I have always thought that percentages should be replaced by points difference, similar to soccer's goal difference, but I guess that would be too radical a move even if to me totally logical.

Round 19 1969
4th North 13 wins 6 losses 1806 for 1553 against 53.766%
5th Torrens 13 wins 6 losses 1858 for 1598 against 53.762%

spell_check wrote:Round 19 1969
4th North 13 wins 6 losses 1806 for 1553 against 53.766%
5th Torrens 13 wins 6 losses 1858 for 1598 against 53.762%

NA differential 253 points
WT differential 260 points

NA are placed on top of WT on the ladder

spell_check wrote:Round 19 1969
4th North 13 wins 6 losses 1806 for 1553 against 53.766%
5th Torrens 13 wins 6 losses 1858 for 1598 against 53.762%

Thanks again Spelly. You are a freak.

My memory is slipping a bit. I didn't quite remember the differential, but as I said before it is the first time I ever saw how ludicrous using percentages could be. And my team benefitted, but I still thought that it was wrong.

And even if the VFL method was used North would have had a percentage of 116.29% and Torrens 116.27%.

So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

Scrappy wrote:So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

They would have to either toss a coin or play a decider prior to the final series starting. It is highly unlikely that it could happen.

robranisgod wrote:

Scrappy wrote:So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

They would have to either toss a coin or play a decider prior to the final series starting. It is highly unlikely that it could happen.

Should it be the head to head games between the clubs in the Minor Round ?
One club could be 3-0 or 2-1 up and finish higher
In the event of 1-1 all, perhaps it could be determined by % on the 2 games ?
Clutching at straws I am !

If West and Norwood are equal after the 2013 Minor Round as well , perhaps Collins and Bassett could have an Indian Wrestle !

spell_check wrote:It is 60.92 to 60.88

http://www.sanfl.com.au/league/ladders/

Well spotted Spelly
Yes the SANFL site has it different to the Advertiser
The ABC ladder has the same as the SANFL

But for discussion purposes we can use the Advertiser version

Scrappy wrote:

robranisgod wrote:

Scrappy wrote:So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

They would have to either toss a coin or play a decider prior to the final series starting. It is highly unlikely that it could happen.

Should it be the head to head games between the clubs in the Minor Round ?
One club could be 3-0 or 2-1 up and finish higher
In the event of 1-1 all, perhaps it could be determined by % on the 2 games ?
Clutching at straws I am !

If West and Norwood are equal after the 2013 Minor Round as well , perhaps Collins and Bassett could have an Indian Wrestle !

It is head to head during the minor round; then percentage on head to head matches.

Scrappy wrote:So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

Have a penalty shoot out like they do in soccer, 21 players ( listed from the last game) from both clubs meet at a neutral venue and have shots from 45 meters out. If scores are still tied, they do it again on a 45mtr angle.

Scrappy wrote:So what happens if 2 sides finish with the same for and against at the end of the Minor Round , and with the same wins
How is it determined which side finishes higher on the ladder ?

Head-to-head record over the season would come into play wouldn't it? Or who has the biggest total positive margin in the head-to-heads if they were tied??