Footy Media - good and bad

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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:06 am

Without seeing what was deleted one of the "refreshing" items when this site started was this part of the mission statment

- We encourage club and media representatives to participate in the site by providing an online environment free of personal attack or insult.

Not sure if that was the issue but I am sure the admin / mods would clarify for you
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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:42 am

Onto the matter at hand re the quality of SANFL commentators.
 
I acknowledge the regular comments that the SANFL broadcasters are "ordinary". However without further specifics on what make them ordinary no one can take that feedback on board.
 
ie
- do they not know the game
- do they not know the players
- are they too AFL focussed
- are they too focussed on the game and not entertaining.
- are they too entertaining and not focussed on the game
- are they too monotonous in their tone
- are they too excited all the time
- are they too repetative in their sayings
- does their description of the game paint a picture in your mind
- are they too statistical
- are they not statistical enough making big statements with no facts to back them up
- do they promote their sponsors too much
- are they too biased
- do they sit on the fence too much
- are they too robotic
 
This sort of feedback can be taken on board.
 
Just saying ... "they are ordinary"  cannot.
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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:50 am

Forgot a few
- are they too focussed on the umpires, not the game
- are they not focussed at all on the umpiring
- are they giving too few score & time upates
- are they giving too many score & time updates
- are they too focussed on a few "favourite" players
- are they not advising who the best players are

any others come to mind?

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Post by Admin on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:56 am

PhilH wrote:Without seeing what was deleted one of the "refreshing" items when this site started was this part of the mission statment

- We encourage club and media representatives to participate in the site by providing an online environment free of personal attack or insult.

Not sure if that was the issue but I am sure the admin / mods would clarify for you


Thank you, PhilH. That sums it up nicely.

Moderation decisions have nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing about an opinion, they have everything to do with site rules. Compared to other sites, there is almost no moderating needed on Talking Footy SA and we're proud of that. Please also note that all moderating decisions are made or confirmed by the team.





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Post by Lee on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:53 pm

Move on, W. That issue has been done to death and there's no need to keep at it.

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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:09 pm

The too AFL focussed is a criticism I have heard levelled at one community radio commentator and mentoned a few radio stations during finals   and is actually a thread on this site re print coverage ... in the AFL reserves space I think it is relevant.
 
Re feedback .. personally I don't think I get too defensive regarding it, I don't know if it is directed at me specifically and even if so, I accept some people have different preferences, that is is why some listen to Fiveaa others ABC radio for their AFL.
 
What had often disapointed me was not having specific details of what was the issue other than voice sounding irritating.
 
I do know as a kid held at home during SANFL games because Woodville was too far away, I was a very attentive radio listener each week and it's that listener experience that has driven how I have described the game over the past 12 years.
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Post by Lee on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Thanks for your post, Phil.

I'll make some general points about the SANFL radio coverage, from my own viewpoint.

First, player ID. Having 'called' the opposition players for West for a couple of years, I know how hard it is. I think the occasional wrong identification is almost inevitable and I judge a caller on their overall performance with this. I can't listen often and when I do it's generally 5RPH, not Life FM. However, the callers are often the same people, so:

I'd rate Phil Herdern, Chris Kendall and Phil Aspinall highly on player ID. Not only that, but I also rate them highly on overall calling of the game. The common factor with them is that they're passionate about the game and/or they're highly involved with the SANFL competition.

I haven't listened enough to some callers to give a proper opinion.

I enjoy listening to Doug Oakley, but he needs to concentrate on the game, not peripheral factors to the detriment of the game. It's no good hearing that the ball is at one end of the ground, listening to a Doug 'aside' and the call is resumed with the ball at the other end. I haven't listened to him lately, so he may have improved on that. His player ID, IMO, needs a lot of improvement. Too many "a West player' type statements. He has a great radio voice.

DB?. well, he's entertaining, he's a good bloke, he's experienced, but he's living on his past efforts. His player ID is awful, to be honest and there's only so many 'sausage rolls' that can be called before you wish he'd just say it was a goal. He needs to do a lot of homework, as he relies on the other callers for player ID too often. Does he use binoculars? If not, then he should.

Other general points. I'd rather a caller waited an extra second or tow before saying a kick is a goal, until they're ceratin. Nothing worse than a goal being called, then corrected to a behind.

We're listening to a radio call. We can't see the game, except through the caller. That should be remembered at all times.

I know community radio needs sponsors, but it's a bit annoying when parts of the game are called with a sponsor's name while the game is going on. Sounds amateurish, but I understand it probably can't be avoided.

I would rate PH, PA and CK very highly. Their calls are knowledgeable, clear and entertaining and I think it would be fairly churlish to criticise them too much.

having said that, I don't think the fact that it is community radio should ever a call should be judged any differently and obviously different people have different opinions.
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Post by Lee on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:25 pm

Just read your previous post, Phil.  I would add that callers who are 'aligned' to a particular club have to be very careful that it doesn't affect their performance.

I also forgot to rate John Nankivell.  That's easy, I regard him as a very good caller in all ways and he forms part of a strong team.

I'm also well aware that SANFL media coverage is now concentrated mainly on community and SANFL radio and I think it's generally done well, including weekly radio shows and Zac Millbank's articles and coverage.

Right, TV.

I've given a detailed critique of the Channel 2 coverage before and rated it highly.  In recent weeks I think some of the shots chosen, which used to give an excellent coverage, have not been as good.  Replays while the game is continuing should be a no-no, unless it's something outstanding that all the viewers would want to see again.  A lot of work goes into the telecast (I get to a game well before the Reserves and they're already working hard to set up equipment, cables and all the rest).  I think the product (the game) sometimes lets down the telecast, but that will always happen.

As for the callers, there's the occasional error, which is unavoidable, but I think it's a high quality production and we'd be in the proverbial without it.  I miss Michael Maney, but Neil Cross, Chris Kendall, Ben Knights and Kym Morgan do a great job and I rate them much higher than most of the AFL commentators who seem more intent on raising their own profile than informing the viewers.

If I was asked, I don't know that I could suggest that much to improve the telecast (apart from me taking over, of course;).
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Post by Lee on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:56 pm

Give it a rest, W. Your motives are very clear, so don't hide behind this poor misunderstood false victim theme.

Please read the site rules again and stick to the spirit of them.
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Post by brodlach on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:22 pm

I listen often to games from both RPH and Lufe and for me John Nankerville is by far the best caller. Excellent tone, player knowledge and has a good feel for the game.
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Post by Lee on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:24 pm

Post deleted, W. We've given up playing these games. Stick to the topic, forget the poster and we'll all get on fine.
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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:46 pm

I listen often to games from both RPH and Lifeand for me John Nankerville is by far the best caller. Excellent tone, player knowledge and has a good feel for the game
.


Agreed 100%, and a great bloke to work with.
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Post by PhilH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Going back to the FOOT-e TIMES SA Media Survey last September here we listed 16 commentators that call SANFL over the season (RPH, Life. ABCTV, ABC Grandstand and FIVEaa) and asked people to rank their top 3 in order.

Here is the top 7

Favourite Play By Play Commentator
- Michael Maney - 124 points
- Dennis Browne - 81 points
- Neil Cross & Chris Kendall - 80 points
- John Nankivell - 75 points
- Phil Aspinall - 72 points
- Kym Morgan - 67 votes

With Michael Maney now back in Launceston it will be interesting who will take the prize when the survey is run again in late 2013.
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Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:07 pm

bigclock wrote:

Join the club. You can have an opinion as long as everyone else agrees or no one takes offence. cyclops 

BC, Fair dinkum, when you were a kid did someone steal your firetruck from the sandpit?
I am quite over these continual jibes against the site admin.

Really, if you feel victimised that much, just don't stay. Simple.
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Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:09 pm

waddayamean wrote:And no personal attack was made. It seems quuite clear if the so called "media" who post on here are not agreed with then it is perceived as a personal attack.

Same goes here.
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Post by Lee on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:52 pm

James Gowans " young Scharenberg or whatever his name is".

Err, it's your job to know, James.

Try Schahinger.

Apart from that, he's good.
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Post by The Hatchet on Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:17 am

not the finest day for the most experienced sanfl caller, our old mate DB on RPH. the day started badly and got worse the longer it got, with players called that weren't even out there and a lot of guessing of names. sad because hes been one of the best we've had over a long time
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Post by Lee on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:46 pm

Read this week's FootETimes.  The boys do a very good job, but it would be nice for them to get below the surface of the predictable sometimes.

They've discussed West's record against Norwood over the last year or two and called it 'Collin's Curse'.

What was missing were a few relevant facts.

First, there was no comparison of other team's records against Norwood in that time.

Second, there was no mention that other clubs haven't been able to beat West to earn the right to play Norwood in a final.

It then follows that perhaps North, or Central, or the Eagles might not score any more than West have against Norwood, but this is ignored and substituted by North being brilliant enough to take it up to Norwood.  Given they kicked 5 goals against them only a few weeks ago, this seems a remarkable leap of faith.

The usual groupthink then regurgitates the 'too defensive' line, while totally ignoring the silliness of that when (correctly) lauding Norwood's 8 goal first quarter.  You don't kick 8 goals in a quarter against a 'defensive team'.  Have they discussed at all whether West changed tactics and it didn't work? No.  Have they looked at West's goals kicked against Norwood this year and compared it to other teams?  No.  Have they compared West's record against Norwood over the past two years and concluded that it's better than most of the comp? No.  Have they concluded that perhaps the current Norwood team is that far in front of the rest, especially in finals? No.

Have they discussed the effect of having 3 or 4 AFL listed players, including a mini-draft pick, against a standalone side? No.  Have they considered what effect it would have if West had the same luxury and played Brad Crouch, Jason Porplyzia and Rory Laird? No.

Have they considered they made the same predictions last year and West subsequently beat North easily? No.

The FeT boys do a great job, but it would be nice for something other than the usual.

For the record, I have no problem with them selecting North, that's a likely outcome, but a bit better analysis would have been nice.

Finally, there's one thing most people ignore when wanting a different game plan by West. The teams that play a so-called attacking style just don't kick any more goals and do they really think Nathan Bassett would just sit there and say 'Oh, I don't know what to do now?" Norwood are the most defensive side by far, but they're the best side by far to know how to use that as a springboard to attack.
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